AI in Hiring & Job Search: What You Need to Know in 2025!

I came to the U.S. to pursue my master’s degree and initially worked as a programmer for about a year and a half. Then, quite accidentally, I transitioned into recruiting.

At the time, I was on the bench, and I approached my owner, expressing my interest in becoming a recruiter. He agreed, but mentioned my salary would be cut by two-thirds. Still, I decided to go for it.

That’s how my recruiting career began back in 1995. Since then, for nearly 30 years, I’ve never once questioned what I was doing. I’ve always enjoyed working in the recruiting industry.

Given my background in programming and engineering, I’ve always been passionate about technology—especially how it can be used to enhance recruiting. I became an early adopter of new tools; if you check my LinkedIn, I was among the first thousand users. Same with Twitter.

I love exploring how technology and recruiting intersect. But ultimately, technology is just a tool. Recruiting is about people, relationships, and building trust.

Neha: So true.

Sam: That’s essentially my journey into recruiting and technology.

Neha: That’s fascinating. Since you transitioned from technology into recruitment, can you share an experience that really changed your perspective on recruitment?

Sam: Absolutely. When I started recruiting, there were no job boards. I was literally handed a phone book and told to make calls. This was back in the mid-90s. No LinkedIn, no Indeed. Even cell phones looked like bricks! Despite the lack of technology, recruiting was—and still is—about connecting with people.

Even today, when I talk to candidates, I don’t just review a resume. I have a conversation to understand their career aspirations. Sometimes, they may not be a fit right now, but they might be later. Early in my career, a mentor told me: “Treat every resume like it could be your $20,000 placement.” That advice stuck with me.

Recruiting was arguably easier 25 years ago. Today, recruiters have to sift through hundreds of applications, many unqualified, and technology has made the process more complex. Recruiters have to act like investigators to find the right fit.

Throughout my career, I’ve mostly worked in contingency staffing agencies. Before I retire, I hope to work on the corporate side—that’s on my bucket list!

Neha: I’m sure you’ll achieve that too! You mentioned how technology and AI are transforming recruitment. Given the rise of AI tools and ATS (Applicant Tracking Systems), do you think resumes still hold value?

Sam: Good question. I have a slightly different perspective. I advise my recruiters not to look at resumes in the traditional way. I see a resume as a conversation starter, not the whole story. 

That said, AI is playing a massive role—whether through predictive analytics, automation, or enhancing the candidate experience.Even before AI, we had ATS systems scanning resumes based on keywords. There was even a trick candidates used called “whitening”—they’d stuff hidden keywords into their resumes in white font, so ATS would pick them up without human eyes noticing.

So yes, resumes still have value—but mainly as a tool to get a foot in the door. A good recruiter knows it’s the conversation that matters most. Technology should enhance productivity and operational efficiency—not replace human interaction.

Neha: Absolutely. And today, it’s easier for candidates to research companies, recruiters, and hiring managers online before even applying!

Sam: Exactly. In the past, you had to meet people in person to network. Today, you can find everything about a recruiter online—LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook—you name it. That’s why I always encourage candidates to leverage technology smartly, without losing the human touch.

Neha: Definitely. Speaking of AI, conversational AI and bots are becoming common even in recruitment. What’s your take on that?

Sam: Conversational AI is advancing quickly. There are tools today that can conduct 20-minute interviews, transcribe notes, and automatically update ATS profiles. These bots can even hunt candidates down across social media, send LinkedIn messages, texts, and emails—far more efficiently than a human recruiter handling hundreds of resumes manually. It’s both exciting and a little scary. But again, AI should handle the mundane tasks, freeing up humans for what matters most: genuine conversations and building relationships.

Neha: Exactly! Technology should be used to complement human work, not replace it.

Sam: Right. AI can make hiring smarter, faster, and even fairer—but it’s the human connection that builds trust and loyalty. At the end of the day, successful hiring combines data-driven decision-making with expert human judgment.

Neha: Very true. When it comes to cultural fit and diversity, do you think AI can truly assess those aspects during hiring?

Sam: Honestly, not yet. Most companies believe their culture is great—and if they’re training AI with that biased input, AI models will inherit those biases. Culture is critical, but it’s hard to codify authentically into AI.

Building great teams requires empathy, energy, and a deep understanding of human dynamics—something AI can’t replicate yet. That’s why a strong human component in recruitment will always be indispensable.

Neha: I agree. Human expertise is irreplaceable when it comes to relationship-building and cultural understanding.

Sam: Exactly.

Neha: Looking five years ahead, where do you see AI-powered recruitment heading?

Sam: To be honest, it’s hard to predict even six months ahead, let alone five years! AI is evolving rapidly. Recruiters must adapt quickly—upskilling and reskilling will be crucial. Most recruiting tasks will be automated, but human judgment, emotional intelligence, and adaptability will become even more important.

Neha: So true. If you were a job seeker today, would you prefer an interview with AI or with a human?

Sam: Ideally, a hybrid. AI could help with the initial screening. But for the final decision, I’d always prefer a human interaction. You can’t truly assess enthusiasm, emotional cues, or deeper motivations through AI alone.

Neha: Agreed! One last rapid-fire question: In one sentence, how would you describe the perfect balance between AI and humans in recruitment?

Sam: As we embrace AI in recruitment, we must remember: technology should serve people, not replace them. The future lies in AI and humans working together to create not just efficient, but meaningful hiring experiences.

Neha: Beautifully said, Sam! Thank you so much for your time, insights, and amazing energy today. This conversation will definitely help a lot of job seekers and recruiters out there.

Sam: Thank you, Neha! It was an absolute pleasure speaking with you.

Transcript:

Neha: A very good morning uh Sam. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Sam: Thank you Nha for giving me this opportunity and appreciate your your time and your expertise this morning.

Neha: Pleasure is all ours. So Sam, you know before delving into the topic and talking about at length about staffing and recruitment, it’ll be great if you can let us know a little bit about your journeys in staffing like what were the key defining moments for you lessons? you have learned along the way?

Sam: Uh, great question. Uh, where do I start? Um, I came here to the US to do my masters and then

Sam: did programming for a year and a half and accidentally fell into recruiting. Um, I was on the bench

and I went to my owner and said, I want to be a recruiter. He said, yeah, you can, but your salary will be slashed by two3 and you can do Right. And I started that career in 1995 as a recruiter. Um had a great journey. Um all these 20 30 plus years I’ve never felt like what am I doing? I always enjoyed working in the recruiting industry. Um above and beyond that I’m also a technologist since I had some programming background and my engineering background. So I always love technology and how to use technology for recruiting. So most of the tools that came in the market, I’m an early adapter to those tools. I play around with it. If I like it, I probably if you look at my LinkedIn profile, I probably are one of the first thousand people who signed up.

Sam: Similarly on Twitter. Um so I do like to play with tools and technology and what better time now um you point to to be in the technology space. Uh and marry recruiting and technology. At the end of the day, technology is just a tool in your cure. All right. At the end of the day, it is about people, relationships, and how you build those things. Um

Neha: so so true.

Sam: Yeah.

Neha: So true. So

Sam: that’s my journey recruiting.

Neha: Yes. Yes. That’s your journey in tech. So Sam, since you have mentioned that you know you have you were doing you were working in technology period. and we have changed a job into recruitment. I mean can you share an experience that really changed your perspective on recruitment? See it’s it’s a great and interesting question if you look at it um when I started recruiting I was given a phone book and told to make phone calls.

Neha: Yes 1985 era

Sam: there was no job boards and I’m not sure you probably are older much older than me. I’m only seven years old. So, uh,

Neha: just

Sam: you may not remember the cell phones which were like a brick or the fax resumes that came into our offices.

Neha: So, I I I I mean I would say I fax I don’t remember but cell phones like brick I can say that

Sam: you probably in movies where yes

Neha: so I used to carry that phone once it came in I still remember model motor something

Sam: but at the end of the day it was all about how do you connect with people what are you doing for them to in to help them in their career to get what they want to get and I even when I’m a recruiter even now I don’t talk about a resume or I don’t look at a resume I talk to people to help them with their careers sometimes you may not be a good fit now but you might be a good fit down the line uh I always um Early when I started this career, I had a mentor who told me that, “Hey, you do not know the next resume that comes in will be your $20,000 fee resume. So, treat everybody equally and fair. Uh don’t bring your past experiences into those uh aspects of recruiting. Yeah, somebody didn’t take a job. The offer was uh pulled out.” All those things happen in recruiting, which is part and parcel of your day-to-day routine. Somebody doesn’t show up for interview. And nowadays it’s lot more but the end of the days the technology and things are um I think recruiting was much easier 25 plus years back than what it is today. Today’s recruiters jobs are a lot more tougher uh because they have to sift through so many resumes so many unqualified people applying for jobs just by keyword searches those type of things. So the recruiter is not only a recruiter but he’s also uh in the talent acquisition You also need to be an investigator to make is a right fit for the company that you’re hiring for uh and and whether that person will have a long-term relationship or or uh this one with the company that we place those. Mostly my my career has been in the contingency workforce. I’ve worked for agencies most of one of the things before I retire I want to go work for a corporate company. I’m not sure when. Uh that’s that’s one of the things that is on my bucket list. I have to check off uh before I hang up my boots.

Neha: So I mean definitely you are kind of I mean your bucket list will get checked out. You have that tendency and you are kind of a person that does that. So s as you mentioned you I mean the technology is into the recruitment and since AI is also into the recruitment you know and now Now réumés I don’t think rumés does hold a lot of value I because all the réumés are being checked by AIS the ATC is there or AT system is there which does only check the keywords so I do you think actual human value or actual I mean in terms of technology and AI and everything the resume does hold any value in the current market

Sam: it it does basically if I have a different opinion about it because I tell my recruiters I don’t look at a resume I look at a resume from a different perspective I don’t look at a resume from a resume but I’m I’m in minority to change the thoughts and processes of all the HR and recruiters is is a different ballgame I know AI is going to be playing a revolutionary part in the staffing processes and automations including predictive analytics and those type of things in the workforce planning and enhancing candidate experience through AI powered interactions, right? But at the end of the day, AI is just a tool and uh if the candidates are going to be using AI to make sure that their resume is ATS ready uh which is just what technology does.

Sam: I’ll give you a funny story. Uh a lot of people may not know this.

Even before AI, there was the ATSS which were scanning those resumes, right?

And when they scan the resumes, if they don’t find the keywords your resume is not shortlisted. So

I have candidates who did something called whitening. I’m not sure if you know what that concept.

Neha: Uhhuh.

Sam: They take all the keywords, dump it into a resume and do not and make it white. So when the human naked eye, you won’t be able to see what they put the keywords in.

Sam: But for a machine because it doesn’t know the things, it will pick up the even the hidden text.

Neha: Yeah, that’s all. So, so those were techniques that people used long before AI, right? I think it is one part of those things. But at the end of the day, uh everybody is going to be using the tool to optimize and to increase their productivity and get the work life balance that everybody’s uh craving for. Uh so technology is just a tool. Uh in my opinion, at the end of the day, technology should be used to enhance your productivity u make you operationally efficient. and help you to uh yeah is it humanly possible for me if I post a Java job I get 300 responses in the next 15 minutes um and I can

Neha: yes

Sam: I have done this experiment before in one of the other podcast I’ve posted a job literally and after 30 minutes I because there was a unique ID I took the unique ID put it in the email then they saw that there were 300 responses that came in in the last 30 minutes like is it humanly possible for me to look at that 300 rs? Absolutely not. Because I work for an agency and time is of the essence and sometimes speed speed uh does matter.

Neha: Matter.

Sam: Yeah. So if you submit a resume within 4 hours to 6 hours your chances of getting an interview is increased by 67%. If you submit after it it decreases to in the upper teens like uh 15 15% right and and recruiters and the HR people look at a resume if I tell you this you might you might not like it because a lot of people job seekers spend a lot of time

Sam: beating their resume

Neha: they’re assuming they’re making it perfect but a recruiter looks at a resume less than 7 seconds that’s not me telling it’s the Wall Street Journal telling that that’s what every person

Sam: if you can’t grab the attention of the recruiter in the first 6 to 8 seconds you are not going to uh get your resume shortlisted. Is it fair, unfair?

Neha: I I’m not the judge of that. But that’s what the profession has taught everybody. And so to change that, it takes a lot of time for the old school uh in recruiting people have been taught what we have been taught and they know what they do. Uh there are only few percentage of people who do a little bit different and uh a little bit wider

Sam: but 98% of the industry follows the herd type of mentality that everybody does this so I’m going to do this right so rums are still going to play a part couple of years back video resumes came it didn’t take off um and and now we recruit in the IT space in that space I can tell you that um most of the people use LinkedIn and other avenues too

Neha: yes

Sam: I’ll tell you another statistics LinkedIn has about 45% is what I heard last time fake

Neha: in there. I I was about to come there.

Sam: Yeah. So, resumes will be a part for the next few few years until somebody

Sam: until the thought process and the mindset changes, right?

Sam: And and look at the generational gap. Gen Z versus Gen X versus Gen baby boomers versus all those other denominations that you talk about. Everybody has nowadays Kids coming out of college, they know exactly what they want to do, right? As old school employers, we are hard and fast in what we think we should hire, but they want work life balance. They want flexibility. And I know the hybrid work is is now the fashion.

And in in another few months, I think everybody was going to come back to work. That will become another

Sam: um and co taught us good and bad lessons.

Neha: A lot of things. Yes.

Sam: Yes.

Sam: So resume will be a tool that can be used. But if you are a recruiter or if you are somebody like me, I don’t use the resume. I use the resume to have a conversation with you.

Um, every time I talk to a candidate, it is a conversation between me and him to find out whether he or she fits

into some of the roles that I’m recruiting for for the clients that I represent.

Neha: No, it is I mean sometimes even when I was actually looking for a job or people were I mean I was in the jobseeking market then first time when many times people don’t look at your resume directly. In fact, the hiring manager is sitting in front of you would look at your resume at the end point and just you know you’ll be saying like oh I’m sorry I didn’t go through your resume so I’ll just quickly have a look and you’ll ask a question. So before doing that but I’m looking at your resume why don’t you walk me through what you have done or what your journey was that

Sam: yeah it is true a lot of people don’t look at the resume um

Neha: yes

Sam: and and I don’t mean as you said said

Neha: the rum holds some some value right I mean still we are looking at rums to shortlist people so that for for them to reach to the first round of interview as well their resume does need to stand out but as you have mentioned the key point over here is whenever you see a job applying within first few hours four to five hours so that your chances of getting selected goes high right also market I also like promotive job seekers who call and there are so many tools and things available nowadays for you to find who the recruiter is, who the company is. You can do so much more research on the company. In olden days, I had to go meet people in person, right? I have to shake hands. Nowadays, you don’t need before before I pick up the call, the candidate can look me up on LinkedIn, look me up on my all my social profile, Facebook, Twitter, uh again, Meta X, whatever, Insta Um, so I always tell people I keep my professional uh things on LinkedIn and my personal things on on Facebook. I want people to know

Sam: I’m a human being, right? I’m not an AI generated uh thing which which in few few years will come um already lot of conversational AI and bots are having conversations with in the recruiting field

Neha: as well as the day-to-day field banking and other things that customer service, Flipkart, Amazon on uh all these things have all these bots that are already having conversations with

Sam: Yes.

Neha: and they’re having good conversations, not just

Sam: normal conversations.

Neha: Yeah.

Sam: So conversational AI is a tool that that people have started to use a little bit more and the world is moving towards an agentic AI. Yes, it is part of Gen AI but at the end of the day um multiple tools and technologies and processes incorporated and an agent doing the work of five people right of five processes being

Sam: put together is what the new uh thing is and I’m not sure uh where this is going to lead to but um if you’re not using AI I anybody who’s using AI will replace you uh I know there is that white elephant in the room that people are scared that AI is going to take the job

Sam: it’s like any generation industrial revolution uh any of those things you take in the past um It’s now human versus the machine and at the end of the day humans are always going to be innovative and and this one and we are the ones who created those things. So I’m sure we will when the challenges rise we all will rise to the occasion and and we’ll be able to do more. Yeah but machines are getting there. Um

Neha: yes look it’s so true that we have said that machines are getting there. I mean some in some other way technology will get a place where humans are but definitely not ahead of us because we are the creators. We have created them for our use to lessen our work and you know make our life a little bit easier. But definitely the key point over here is if you are a candidate, if you’re a job seeker, even if you are a recruiter, please please use technology to your you know value to your it so that you can stand out not the other way around.

Sam: Right?

Neha: This is a lesson for job seekers. Yeah, I’ll I’ll give you an example. I use a lot of tools and technologies. I I have about 400 extensions when I was recruiting long before AI came into play.

Neha: Oh, okay.

Sam: Now AI has come and I use a lot of the AI tools to answer the emails to do my LinkedIn post.

Some of those things which are uh which are mundane tasks that I don’t need to be involved in. Um where the automation automation of automation is already taking place

Sam: and some tools that have come in uh compost.ai, magical.ai and those type of things which you can use. Merlin there’s so many tools available nowadays. So I’ll give you a landscape. A year and a half ago when uh everybody was on this AI journey until Chad GPT came that that didn’t explode right people were doing if if you have to take my thesis in my masters was fuzzy logic and that’s I’m talking about 30 years ago right in 1990. Um but that is the the that is a part of AI algorithms and those type of things that that are developed and uh randomly come

Sam: and whatever we thought we saw in movies

is going to be real very soon. Flying cars

Neha: I saw somebody there is already a flying car tested out or something.

Sam: Yes.

Sam: Whatever we movies is is already here and and the self-driving autonomous car cars, the things the only thing I will always tell people is when you were young, if you remember going to your grandma’s house, they will still do uh cooking on the outside with the firewood, right? Or or charcoal.

Neha: Yes.

Sam: Nowadays, induction oven, air fryers, microwaves, why are you using it? It’s it’s because we we say we don’t have time and

Neha: Yeah.

Sam: But you know, even people Don’t even try to use the lighter. I mean you have the automatic uh this gas thing which where you just switch on the knob and it light

Neha: the ignition.

Sam: Yes.

Sam: Yeah. So that’s that’s what again people talk about uh AI like it is but if you were using GPS and other things before you were already part of some of the automation and other things that

Neha: automation yes

Sam: nowadays people can’t remember the phone numbers of their wife kids and and their parents because it’s auto dial like you you somebody calls you back you just hit redial you look at the name dial so you don’t know the phone numbers when I was a recruiter I could tell

Sam: I could

Neha: this is true

Sam: yeah and then you can’t even know uh we are all slave to the technology right we don’t know to go to a neighborhood store

Sam: um so I was a newspaper delivery boy I delivered pizzas when I was going to school at the time There was no GPS’s right. It I had to

find my own way and remember and they used to be given a map. Uh I used to go to uh American Automobile Association and get the map and with the highlighter map where we need to go and which exit and all those things. Now this it’s frightened. Even when I started in recruiting, I used to print out the Yahoo directions and send it to people and tell them um and but there was No GPS you have to print it out look at and then navigate your way through. So that’s

Sam: I mean we have came a long long way I would say now it’s all just one touch away I would say one touch away one CD away or one Google away that’s so you know some since we have talked about all the thing I mean technology everything so in what situations do you see like human expertise is indispensable when it comes to recruitment

Sam: absolutely humans are not going to go away machines are not there to emote and do any of those things I know if you watched the robo movie the robot marrying I’m sure that will be a time in the next 50 to 60 years uh again all the hoopla about deep deepse and and the computing power and the myth that people had it’s all going to be broken up but at the end of the day it comes down to people and how they build the relationships and how they take the data

Sam: that is much available today and how do you decipher the data and make the decisions based on the data right at the end of the day the data architecture which is the underlying fact is what is going to drive any organizations and if you look at the iterations of the AI they say AI can become an organization in the next fourth or fifth iteration of AI they’re talking about AI can become the company and it can do the head accounting and all those things.

Uh and and we are few years away from that. But at the same time, I would tell everybody who’s listening to adapt to technology. Um I I I still remember a day in 2008 when the US market took a blood bath where a lot of companies like Lehman Brothers, AIG and all went out of uh business overnight. Uh and people were on the streets and that was a very dark time in the US 20089 uh the market took a deep cut and there were a lot of

Sam: and people were not used to LinkedIn and those type of things at that point and people were already

scared to use those things and people who been working in jobs for 20 years 25 years 30 years lost their jobs and they didn’t know what hit them and then there was that offshoring which happened during the same time frame and and things so I do remember um talking to a lot of people at that time uh the older age group what I found was uh they were averse of technology they were afraid of technology um and and I still have friends who have flip phones they don’t have the smartphones yet uh because they’re afraid of privacy and others

Sam: privacy is going to be a big thing um there will be some rules and regulations uh the the data privacy

concerns and compliances will be a big part in how people use this always there will be bad actors um in irrespective of technology that you use but at the end of the day um I think technology does a lot more good than bad and as a recruiter I’ve always adapted to new tools and technologies uh I I jokingly tell people that um if I have to go do something I ask that even if I know it know I can do it well um and I’m pleasant is surprised. Sometimes it gives me some things that I might not have thought about, right? And it’s it’s like in that pizza pie circle, we only know this much of what we know.

Neha: This much. Yes. True. So

Sam: is we do not know what we do not know, right? And and that is

Neha: a big shift um of for people and adapting to and the the scary part is AI is changing so rapidly. So any any innovation that took place Yeah.

Sam: 1900 to 2000 and 2000 to 2022 with the iPhone and disruption everything was I now everything is going to be AI right

Neha: and changing rapidly.

Sam: Yes it is. I mean I remember it’s few months back only we were talking about how AI is going to take jobs and everything and some people were saying no no there’s no way I can still there’s far way for them to go and AI does not do this does not do that then quickly one morning we have AI agents yeah who can do a lot of work for you then again one day you open your eye and you see deepse in the market and it’s beating chart GPT then again some other day you see something new

Sam: a lot of things are growing in the market so definitely the change is too big but yes everyone out there has to adapt it be it job seeker be it normal people be it recruiter or any other organization you have to ad that as for the technology

Sam: I tell that to job seekers and I tell that to organization organization which adapt to AI and are upskilling and reskilling their workforce uh what companies can do to make AIdriven hiring decisions more transparent and more candidate friendly they will do better uh and a lot of the HR onboarding processes

Sam: and again if you look at it with tools and technologies and Telo and SAP and workforce and workday and all those things that you look at uh those are just tools to help companies to get to where they need to get on scale

Neha: right

Sam: and AI is going to be something that so what are the new skills that a job seeker or a recruiter needs to learn and things it could be different every day uh anything that you think you are it’s a mundane task that can be done by a machine I think will be done by the machine u saying

Sam: which is um getting the top three candidates narrowed down from the resumes and and and they might be doing much faster quicker than a human high can do. Within 3 seconds, I might be able to get the top three candidates in my database who might be fitting for this job. One of the things that has not changed with AI also is the job description. The job description is still 100 years old and that is the fancy of each hiring manager. If me and you are creating a job description, for a role that we both agree that is the same title like the marketing manager the way you write your job description and the way you think you need few things is going to be

Sam: different than what I right

Neha: yes

Sam: and that is the one part of commonality which is not uh even with AI they’re not able to narrow that gap down

Sam: um I I say the olden days where we used to advertise jobs on the newspapers it was limited because we didn’t have space because we have to space

Neha: space. Yes.

Sam: Pay for the space.

Neha: It was pay for space. Yes.

Sam: So we kept it very tight and very

Neha: concise.

Sam: Concise so that you could find the right nowadays it’s like a Bible or a Ramayan or or a Quran.

Every job description is four pages long.

Sam: Right. They want everything and anything. So sometimes when I talk to the hiring man I asked them what are the top five skills that you required in this job and who will be successful in this role. Uh give me the soft skills that you require and then we can go back to work and then see who we can get right. So that would be

Neha: okay.

Sam: So the AI powered hiring landscape is going to change um every three months, six months.

Um so it is it is a race and somebody comes like you mentioned deep seek and all those things somebody comes with a new toy so everybody runs after that and then

Neha: talked about

Sam: right and and that may not serve the purpose for what what you need to do yeah you can play around with it

but you don’t for a small company like us we don’t have unlimited budgets right so I have to be very prudent and very costconscious on what I use so that’s why I like a lot of the premiums uh that I that I subscribe to where you can get some free and then Then you might have you like it then you can go and pay for it or or you find similar tools which are premiums and you can get five six tools and use it and get by by not subscribing to any of those things.

Neha: Sam you know when it comes to like AI and hiring and I have seen companies doing the uh video interview analysis using AI. So how accurate is it at assessing a candidate through personality and skills because that he asks very limited questions but like a robotic kind of questions.

Sam: So great question how accurate is it?

Neha: Great question because I have some experience in that interview as as service space because I did work for a company called E Techi and I served on their board.

Sam: We do interviews

Sam: um for bigger clients and what can AI can do? There is two different distinctions right AI is A lot of people are trying to filter that 300 rums to the 50 or 60 that they can talk to. So they can use an AI assessment which can at least give them a benchmark. Okay, these people have done well and this

and and I will tell you

even doing video interviews a lot of companies facing challenges which including ET is there are a lot of co-pilots that have come in the market to help the candidates take interviews. Final round interview.ai uh is one tool that I know which is which which helps you. You feed the job description, you feed the uh resume and it will customize the answers according to oh when I was working at AMS or when I was working at ET when I was working at and it will give you those answers. So the interviewer also will think oh wow this candidate it’s not and so they’re learning how to do teleprompting and some of the teleprompting nowadays with the AI tools. You don’t even need to do the teleprompting. It will adjust your eye movements. It will adjust your

Neha: eye movements. Yes.

Sam: And you can have another um so every every candidate will become a political candidate. So they don’t need to give the speeches, right? They can they can look at the teleprompter. So we are making lot of politicians in the world uh to how to read a teleprompter. Um but the end of the day it it is it is a journey that that um Like always the cops are two steps behind the thieves, right? Um the technology will bring a lot of bad actors and bad people use tools used badly by the people, right? At the end of the day, it is people who are using those.

Neha: Yes.

Sam: And it’s people who make the system break and system and system.

Uh it’s not the AI. AI has the right intentions. Uh it is how we use it and what we do. Uh you can use that to your advantage by helping you to prepare for the interview or or um one of the things you mentioned is personality. Right.

Neha: Right.

Sam: Yeah. They are they are there are tools out there note-taking tools that can look at your sentiment an analysis like it will tell you how many filler words you used during that interview and those type of things.

Neha: Okay.

Sam: I use a tool called humanic. Uh before that I used to use a tool called crystal nose. It is it is uh I use it with candidates and hiring managers because it gives me a generic idea of their dispersonality and and um people are broken down into four major dispersonality. Disc and D has a different characteristics. I has a different character. S and C has a different characteristic. And I’m a I’m a DSC or a D S and I. So my personality morphs into few of those other things. But some are very some like short emails long emails. So it will help me to say oh no na likes short emails right uh and I don’t need to spend time writing long emails to you which I know you will not like.

Sam: So those are some of the things that we the the tools can help you. Um it is yes but the end of the day yeah the the conversational AI bots are having conversation but at the end of the day uh I can tell whether you are enthusiastic, you are not enthusiastic. I can ask the questions. Uh when you give me a certain answer, I know that certain answer is not the right answer. I can ask two or three follow-up questions to get that right answer and and see whether you’re a good fit for the organization or not. So the human relationship,

Sam: human conversations are still going to be a big part of the thing.

Neha: True. True.

Sam: One of the things I would say on the hiring is people first hiring is non-negotiable right it has to be

Neha: yes

Sam: right

Neha: I mean this

Sam: there are organization who still gives value to this fight but now since we you know as we have said people are using AI and people are using AI to cheat and AI to do different matters so there are organization out there who are like let’s take the one who are good because not everyone can judge or not everyone is very good at making things out of like pinpointing what is going wrong with this video. Some people are so clever you’ll not even be able to make out that this person is cheating or this person is doing some verating or whatever the thing is

Neha: right.

Sam: Yeah. So that the the technology should enhance not replace the human element and datadriven decision making is going to be more effective then if you really look at hiring it’s more like a gut feel right I like I like the way you look either like the way you answered the question I like the way like you are like me

Sam: and that’s where a lot of the hiring decisions are made and a lot of the hiring managers

are not so sometimes the yeah can can

uh the AI have a bias absolutely because it’s a trained element of it what it’s trained on is what it is like if I tell my dog to go bite somebody if if he comes into my house the dog is going to go do it and that’s what we have done to the LLMs we are training them right at the end of the day it is it is what we train and some LLMs are good and some LLMs are bad with hallucinations and other things that you talk about

Neha: yes

Sam: but at the end of the day is just some datadriven decisions making it more effective

and then then rather than a gut feel that people talk about when they hire right

Neha: so the tools which you’re using do human things I mean not at this point of time but definitely you know inhuman there’s a tendency to have some biases as you have mentioned right do you think that these two will also have biases and if yes then how do you think I mean then the recruitment or the thing which on which hiring is going on for example some companies let’s say let’s take an example like some companies only hire droids like they don’t want girls to be in the market or some companies have such let’s say I want people from this race or this ethnicity only I don’t want people from some other background.

Sam: So you you hit upon lot of things there. I’ll I’ll just break

uh companies don’t want to hire women. There are a lot of companies out there. There are n million reasons why they don’t want to hire. Uh I have a team I have everybody is a woman except for two two men on my team. Right. I I I have that and and I do like women because they go and do in some cases. Yes. The the old school thought of they can make decisions, they can’t do they are more emotional so they won’t be able to make the right decisions. All the myths that things that you hear in in that some of might be true right and it could be the personality of the person.

Sam: Uh yes and and there is in US there is age based discrimination people who are 50 people want to hire they want to hire. So I always tell people I when I have another uh conference on the 14th a webinar on the 14th and I can tell the constituents there 60 to 80% of the people will be over 50 years of age right who have lost their jobs and they’re trying to find jobs and they’re trying to see how

I can help them and stuff like that but I always tell them at the end of the day when you get an interview it is your job you see all these white hairs that is has to have some value in in the experience and you should also show the new hiring manager that you are not just old school you are learning new technologies and you’re adapting to the change right you adapted to using GPS right it it is the same way and people are looking to marry that experience with the knowledge of how to use some of the tools and how you can make those tools efficient in your overall function to be more productive at the end of the day people are looking for employees who are more productive uh less cost process and all those things

Sam: and these tools can help and that’s that’s

um something that you should be able to and you should one of the things that people probably will take time to adapt is the change of pace that this technology is changing and what you should learn and what you should not learn. What you learned six months ago may not be useful. Like before a year ago, everybody was looking for prompt engineers. Like now they now their tools and and US they were paying $350,000 for fresh graduates. Uh 350K.

Neha: Yes.

Sam: 400K.

Neha: Yes.

Sam: Now in the past few months I’ve seen those job disappear because Chad GPT or Perplexity or Claude or Gemini or Deep Sea or any of these things are are are there tools or pilots that have already come that will tell you how to write the prompts you don’t need to know how

Neha: yes yes

Sam: the prompt engineering is gone right so so a lot of the problems which came AI itself is solving it right so so how you adapt to the iteration of that and how you are going to use it to your advantage is the bigger uh differentiation for people in my opinion so you should be upskilling reskilling

Sam: spend at least 15 minutes to minutes a day. Uh and that will become paramount for you going forward. Right? It is not going

it is not going to be uh you know what I went to got a degree.

Neha: Mhm.

Sam: You don’t need to code anymore in the next few weeks, months, you will see that nobody needs to code. The coding will be done. Code low code will be

Neha: paramount. Right. Those type of things.

Sam: Yeah.

Neha: True. So true. True. There is there is. So you know when it comes to like hiring since we have already talked about the bias. So how do we think how can AI actually help companies in hiring for the cultural fit while still promoting the diversity and inclusion?

Sam: I am I am in a very um funny times in the US because with the new administration the DEI initiatives are going to be gutted out. Um last few years it was DI DI. Every company was talking about it. Whether they really understood the meaning of it, I’m not sure.

Neha: Meaning of it.

Sam: U it was a buzz word that they all thought it makes more corporate sense if you use that word and do it. I I’ve been in a lot of conferences when I speak speak to a lot of them. They really don’t have a clue about Yeah. Because as a corporate company they have to do some of those things. They have done it. Um, can a company find a cultural fit of a candidate? It is interesting

Sam: using AI.

Neha: Yeah. Yeah. It is it is an interesting question. Uh, I think it will come in due course but it is not there yet. Right.

Neha: Okay.

Sam: Because because every company thinks they are great.

Neha: True.

Sam: Nobody is going to admit that they are bad.

Neha: Not good.

Sam: Yeah. So they are going to train all the AI models with that notion. So you are training it wrong, right? And because you are not being truthful if you have issues. So one of the things that we as an organization have been talking about and

culture is very close to my heart and it is one of the things that I look for in companies and I try to um incorporate within the teams that I interact with. um is I don’t in my interviews I tell people don’t call me sir if you call me sir I don’t like the hierarchy uh part of it that’s me

Sam: right I treat everybody the same um

I don’t look at you from the perspective of the title I look at you you’re here to fill a gap in what we are trying to do and each of you have a role to play and how do you fit into it and uh while we are working and doing 12 to 14 hours a day at work how can I make it more fun and enjoyable um at at play hard work hard u is is one of my things and have fun while you’re doing that

Sam: so culture is a big part of it and I can tell you just being in the offices recently in India um there is a different level of when I walk into the office I say hello hi bye I’m very loud I wear wigs and things on the meetings. I try to right I I I I have an energy that I bring to the office when I go into the office and and sometimes it’s infectious. People gravitate towards

Sam: and the one thing you again it goes back to my first mentor that I had 25 years ago. He said uh the one thing you control is a passion. So when you when I answer my phone call whether at 6:00 a.m. in the morning or 1:00 a.m. in the morning, my tone is the same. And I when I greet people, I’ll say, “Hey, Nha, how are you?” What it is,

whether I got up from the sleep or I and if I got up from the sleep, I make sure that I stood up when I answered the phone call. Um, so I do remember that um very well saying the passion is the one that you control. The rest of it is is

Sam: Yeah. So culture is very very important. Very Can the AI do a job? Not in my opinion, not because of a lot of the biases that people have fed it because everybody that they are great and then that’s the training that they’re doing until unless somebody says okay these are the problems that my organization has what can I do how can I and that part of it um I’m not sure if if a lot of organizations can do that at this point eventually they will

Neha: okay

Sam: do that training and But not now. I’m just saying. Right. So Sam, looking ahead like five years from now, this is like a recruitment kind of question. Where do you see five years from now? Looking ahead like five years from now, what do you envision AI powered recruitment will look like?

Sam: I’m scared to even look five years ahead because I don’t know what is going to come in six months and a year.

Um to be honest, it’s that it is a challenging time and it is scary at the same time. Right? Because all of us are not sure where this is going.

Organizations, individuals, we are all trying to catch up to it, right? Or some are catching up to it, some are somewhere in middle and some are ah nothing is going to change. Um and I I have some news for that last segment of population. Everything is going to change, right? And to look ahead in the six years, five years ahead is a scary thought and what this can do for me, right? If I have to take one small example, my recruiters talk to candidates in the average of two and a half minutes. That is a lot.

Sam: Okay,

Sam: there is a tool out there which tells which which claims to talk 21 minutes with a candidate. It’s a bot. It’s a virtual recruiter. It will not only talk to the candidates, it will transcribe the notes and put it into the ATS that I’m using. I can’t have my recruiters put notes when I ask them to put notes. Yeah, the candidate was good. Why he was good, why he was not good, why it is is is something that you have to um to to know and and do, right? Uh but that’s not how things are. Um they don’t put the AI will hunt you down on LinkedIn, text message, Facebook, Twitter, whatever is in the in that ATS with all those social profiles that you are on. It will hunt you down in those places. So, it will send a text message, it will send a LinkedIn message, it will send a a Facebook message, it will do all those things and get hold of the candidate, which my sometimes I tell my recruiter, hey, did you call the candidate? And oh, I forgot. I will call them now.

Sam: Right? I don’t have to remind this AI tool

to call and it’s making 300 phone calls a day.

Neha: A day.

Sam: Right. So that itself is scary to me. Um and and I always tell people when I start recruiting I can still remember days that I did 200 to 250 phone calls because we are calling from the phone book. Like nowadays my recruiters make 50 60 70 phone calls in a week or or 150. So that’s a drastic and if that machine that AI tool can make 300 phone calls that means it’s reaching more candidates. It’s having more meaningful conversations and so the operational efficiency is a lot higher. Uh and and I’m scared to look six years ahead now or five years ahead to uh I I tell people take three months at a time that’s that’s the advice I

Neha: okay

Sam: um just think about what’s happening in this three months and then we can block off the next three months later. take one step at a time. Yeah. No, you said so true. I mean I al I would also not say in the coming future like you know one I I will not be able to predict what will happen with AI and with the current market in fact job market or any other whether in coming one or two years we will not be able to say what will actually be happen.

Neha: So Sam this is one question for you like okay let’s take you would have you your data is like shipped from 1995 like you joined the organization. So you are now a Zenz or Zen Alpha or Z in fact million in the current marketing I mean in the current uh job scenarios in the current recruitment role imagine you would job hunting today what would you prefer? Would you prefer an interview with an AI or you would you prefer an interview with a real person and if a real person then why or if AI then why?

Sam: I I I would I would do a hybrid.

That’s the easiest answer. But the end of the day in some of the cases we have to use AI to shortlist some candidates and then we will have to do a human u

Neha: interview

Sam: evaluation and interview and and again it’s going to become scary because the candidates are all going to use AI to do their resumes. Do I know this resume is true? Do I know that They can take a GD and put it in JPD and tell AI to write a resume for them and it will customize the resume with the keywords in the job

Sam: and and it will be a good fit because my AI machine will pick that candidate up because it matches a lot of the keywords that the company is looking for. But the end of the day, I have to make sure and validate. I I remember one of the sales trainers that I used to work with, he always used to say, trust everybody but very That is going to be a a mantra going forward uh in the AI world.

Do I trust everything? Look at the voice messages you’re getting. It’s like Trump is calling you or your wife is calling you and asking for it is is exactly her voice. She’s asking she forgot the PIN number for the ATM and

Neha: ATM. Yes.

Sam: So look at all the frauds that are happening. Right. So that that is something that that you it’s it’s a combination of both in my opinion again none of the technology is there yet in some of the cases the the all the mundane task so if I’m doing 15 tasks as a recruiter maybe six to nine task I can automate and it can do better than I can do but interviewing a candidate do I know the emotional shift that you’re having whether you’re smiling you’re not smiling whether you’re going through a difficult whether you had a bad experience at your last employer and you’re trying to get away with it. Or you’re going through some personal turmoil and a I cannot pick any of those things up yet. I still need a human being to call that and and have the interview and see the enthusiasm and those things. I can fake some of those things but uh at the end of the day I have to verify and for that a human is absolutely needed. So a lot of the time we spend doing mundane tasks will be given back to us. What are we going to do with that? Uh now It is understanding the people um having good communication skills, good presentation skills. Um and some of the soft skills will play a major role in in each of the person’s lives going forward at least in the recruiting world,

Sam: right? Or the sales world. So that becomes paramount. How do you take data that is given from multiple sources that make a decision? Right.

Neha: nice. Oh. agree I somewhat I agree if I would have to give an interview first I would like to try avoid AI altogether because I do like the post communication and that thing but even if there is an AI since now I could not avoid it I would say I that might be the best option

Neha: choose my profile on the bas of APS system

Sam: yeah I’ll give you a example when when I was a recruiter LinkedIn was a big tool that I used more than the job board right LinkedIn came up That’s something um predictive analytics if I’m changing jobs at that time I will be going and seeking lot more recommendations from my peer group and if somebody is taking recommendations in bunch that means that person is ready to transition he’s ready looking for a job

Sam: job

Sam: yeah so it it gave me a a thing n has been looking n has been seeking recommendations, she might be a right candidate for a change. It gave me that level of sentiments long before AI did, right? And and if I use that and if I use those same algorithms that they built and I looked at it and I can build and look at profiles, I can call some of those candidates myself after I look at profiles, what changes they have made, when they made a change. So if you’re looking for a job, you would have gone on the job board now and other things and made changes on your resume, right? And and I just as a recruiter the simplest trick is when did you update your resume last if you updated a year ago? Yeah. And and I would call So I’m in the financial market in New York, New Jersey, that’s where I recruited most of my career. I know between January and March, I have to I have to date so many candidates just because I know that when they’re bonuses come if they’re not happy with their bonuses they’re going to leave their jobs

Neha: their jobs yes

Sam: so but if I am not having conversation from with them from January to March I won’t be able they won’t be knowing me and they won’t they won’t trust me when they’re ready to make a change because I spoke to them I’m top of the mind they will call me and say hey Sam I’m looking for a change this is what I’m looking for right so that becomes a paramount for me when when I’m looking for change right so those things were there long before AI but now help and accelerated right so that’s that’s and how do you use that tool to accelerate is what you look for

Sam: so so Sam when it comes to the AI and since you might be using it okay but for an example if you had an assistant let’s say what would be the one part or one hiring process which you would let your AI assisting family

Sam: talking to the candidates and finding out what they’re looking for. Um,

Neha: not actually I mean

Sam: building a relationship with that

Neha: building relationship

Sam: building the relationship.

Neha: Okay,

Sam: I always tell my recruiters have a 5 10 minute conversation with the candidate. He may not be good for that particular job that you’re recruiting for. And don’t become job centric when you’re calling a candidate. become career counselor to the candidate. So he or she will call you when when he or she’s ready to move in the market rather than

Sam: that’s the main thing.

Neha: Yeah. Rather than you doing what you do and then you’re not able to do um that a lot of mundane tasks will be outsourced to to to AI, right? It’s it’s not

Neha: I think this is the right thing that you have mentioned like don’t find a recruiter, become a career counselor kind of thing because you may never know that person or the person you’re talking with might not be the right fit for this job but he can be right fit for some other job

Sam: which you might be having. So true. So true. So let’s have a rapid fire round now. Okay, settle a little debate. You know a lot of people in the market are saying this job is going to get be get eaten by AI or this job is going to be get beaten by AI kind of thing. So I’ll just name some of the job roles or some part of the job. Okay, let me know if you think AI can effectively you know screen for this role or like if yes or like what challenges might arise that AI can actually you know do this job but essentially effectively that the human go Before you before I answer any of those questions, I’ll preface it by saying that most of the jobs AI will affect most of the currently that we are doing will affect and like I said it will be

Sam: if you’re doing 10 or 15 task it will be the 3 to 5 to 9 10 tasks that it can be automated. In some in some jobs it can be 10 to 12 task that you’re doing but there will be that still the three to four task that human being needs to do and you need to be better at it. Um In some jobs it could be three, some jobs it could be 12, right? Uh but

every job is going to get affected by AI in my opinion.

Neha: Yes.

Neha: No true. So but when it comes to screening effectively screening with the help of AI do the jobs will be like same thing. I mean let’s let’s see how it goes.

Neha: So let first first job which I will give you is graphic designers.

Sam: In my opinion since you’re in the marketing side do you think it will it will go away. I think it will go away to 60 to 75%. With the help of the tools, they can do much better job and much better graphic designing than what and and the time of generating something is going to be so much more shortened, right? In in if text to video, video to text, all those things that you’re doing and how to generate graphic design. Yeah. But if you’re artistic person and how you take that tool to help you and how to make it better and and and this one you will you will still have a job and and

Neha: true

Sam: yeah

Neha: that that the last point which you have mentioned that that’s what where I was going to come from since I said no because you know graphic designer definitely if you’re just doing the design for designing your job might be but if you are someone who is really artistic and who was enthusiast into designing then Well, definitely Daniel there is work out there for you even with the AI because your mind is different right let’s come into the managerial roles when it comes to managerial roles such as CEO

Neha: managerial roles such as team lead

Sam: CEO not team lead but the higher managers like the company the one where organization the one who do all the organization CEO chief executive officer

Sam: it don’t go away for another 5 to 10 years but eventually like I said AI is going to become an organization in itself at that point but the role of a CEO the way that a CEO needs to operate is changing drastically

Neha: yes and they have to adapt to the tools and technologies and how to the toughest task how to motivate your company how to get your vision and mission across to your employees so that they get excited how to build that great culture right

Neha: culture

Sam: and all those things are going to change HR and the HR roles are going to change and culture and some of those things are going to play a bigger part and why why a company grows and how a CEO can excite his his population is is going to be different it cannot be you’re sitting in a glass and you’re sitting in the boardroom meeting and and stuff it becomes lot more interactive and a lot more this one. So your role is changing and and a lot of the data is available uh for a lot of people. So how to make datadriven decisions and how you can so some of those enhancements for the CEOs are going to happen

Neha: the role is definitely changing

Sam: changing true so since we have talked about CEO CTO chief people officer or chief human resource officer do you thing I mean that’s something which can be taken away

Sam: I don’t see there might be some jobs which will be eliminated which are the mundane task

but lot of these task jobs it may not be the way that you know how it is currently constituted it will change how it is constituted down the line right it could look different it could the skill sets that are required for you to execute that role could be different

Sam: or or or some of those other new nuances needed to be added for you to be successful in that role. Uh but other than that, I don’t think it will eliminate any of these other jobs.

Neha: And okay, so you might be hiring in day in day out about the the technical jobs in the marketing such as software engineer or deops or any other technical point. What do you think about that job? How much AI has affected it and in your In fact in your screening as well when you you know use AI for the screening of technical people how much that has been affected the technical jobs

Sam: like like I said the technical jobs maybe if there are 10 jobs available today maybe five will be available but the the rest could have changed into some new roles that will be created new okay

Neha: positions that will be created

Sam: right back in testing right um people u manual testers and automation testers will be eliminated but they have to still test the AI. So somebody who’s good with AI and AI testing they will have a better role right uh so you have to adapt to some of those some roles will be eliminated and some new roles will be created uh which is part of any revolution right and so this is the AI revolution that is happening if you look at lot of the manufacturing jobs became eliminated and became

Sam: and and they became you know, a big booming economy and and stuff like that. But now a lot of those jobs are being brought back and and it’s different shape and form that somebody’s executing it.

Neha: So true. So Sam, since we have like came it was a very nice discussion with you and we have came to the end of our podcast. Okay. In one sentence, how would you describe the perfect balance between AI and human decision making in recruitment.

Sam: Um first of all I’m I am not a one line or one word person. Uh I wish to give some context to as we embrace AI and recruitment. Uh the most important thing that we should remember is that technology should serve people as I mentioned before right not replace them. Uh AI can make processes smarter

Sam: uh faster and even fairer uh in some instance, but it is the human connection that builds the trust, inspires loyalty, and drives long-term success. And whatever AI tool you have or don’t have, uh, at the end of the day, you as a human being, you are playing a a major role in in trying to build that trust, loyalty, and long-term success for the organization and for yourself, right? Um, so we have to find a balance between technology and expert human judgment, right? That can lead to better hiring outcomes for both candidates and employers, not just candidates in in my opinion, right? As leaders, it is our responsibility to ensure AI used ethically,

Sam: transparently, and inclusively, right? And that is something that

that people miss, right? We all run after that shining object. The future of uh recruitment isn’t AI versus humans. is AI and humans working together creating an experience that is not just efficient but meaningful. Uh some of the things that you brought about asking the the biases not hiring women uh I I think this can help to be efficient but also meaningful and um since we’re coming to the end of this conversation I appreciate the time that you have given me um and to have this conversation 

Neha: and our pleasure. Pleasure is all mine, Sam. It was very nice having with you, speaking with you and discussing this. at length. This will help a lot of people definitely once our episode is out there. This will help a lot of job seekers. Even the person who is into the recruitment and you know they are looking for someone who they look up to or for like kind of mentorship or thinking a different way thinking something seem similar as you will definitely have something to you know look at.

Sam: Yeah. Like I I’ll end by saying this everybody is in a very weird space at this point right individuals organizations companies anything that you they’re not sure about and and I can help organization

Sam: to get there uh by having some meaningful conversation and and discussing some of the because everybody see I don’t want people to look at tools tools will come and go right the processes that you use to use those tools and what you’re going to do with some of those tools and how you build your people is how organization can be successful.

Neha: So successful. So true. So true. Definitely. So all who are listening, Sam has already mentioned his details, but I will be also sharing a few of them. His LinkedIn and Medi all of you want to reach out to him, please reach out to her. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Sam.

Sam: Thank you for joining us.

Neha: Have a great day.

Sam: Have a nice day. Bye.

Neha: Thank you.